Forum:Plagiarism on Memory Gamma

Just a heads up for everyone who writes fan fic or creates fan art. Keep an eye on Memory Gamma, as plagiarism is once again rearing its head there. It's a periodic thing, and something sadly perhaps to be expected, but if you're an author or artist, it would behoove you to check MG every now and then and make sure no one's been passing off your work as their own. Having a wiki for the actual writing/posting of fanfic may be a nice thing, but I've seen far too many contributors there rip off matieral from other fan authors, with the wiki's administration and policies too lax to do anything about it. Just keep an eye out for your stuff. --TimPendragon (talk) 11:07, March 15, 2018 (UTC)

I've been doing things about it, and I've addressed the issue. electrictalk 17:40, March 15, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Please remove this post. I have addressed the issue and have done what you have requested. electrictalk 16:34, March 16, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Absolutely not. Just because one instance has been fixed, I'm not going to remove a warning about a site that has been plagued by plagiarism in the past, and very well may be in the future. Creators need to be aware. --TimPendragon (talk) 17:36, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

Sure, but please stop launching attacks on users. It doesn't help the situation.

I've not attacked anyone. I warned you that Typhuss was banned here for a variety of reasons, and I called Dragonboy out on his plagiarism and theft. If speaking the truth and warning others about users who have proven to be problems in the past an "attack," then sure.  --TimPendragon (talk) 18:55, March 16, 2018 (UTC)

You literally called him a "little boy" and told him there was something wrong with him. But I'm done arguing. electrictalk 19:54, March 16, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Those aren't attacks, they're statements of obvious fact. Literally no one but a child says "You're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do" as a defense when called out on a misdeed; and having stolen someone else's creation then defending that act as "no big deal" definitely means there's something wrong. The fact that you're reaction to this entire situation is to be more concerned about the thief's feelings than the theft in the first place shows you to be a bad admin. You don't want to argue, but on your wiki, you've continued the argument and locked me out of it. Your own actions belie your words. At this point, your umbrage is worth nothing more than an eye roll. Be warned that screenshots of every conversation relating to this issue on Memory Gamma have been saved and crossposted to Reddit, STPMA, TrekCreative and everywhere fanfiction writers gather, as a warning. You now have a cadre of interested parties acting as watchdogs. You've proven to be ineffectual and unwilling to respond to plagiarism in the manner you should. The next time plagiarized material shows up on Memory Gamma, expect to receive DMCA notices through Wikia, because alerting you to the issue and expecting you to care is obviously not going to produce the needed outcome. --TimPendragon (talk) 04:13, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

What exactly is going on here?  Where is the alleged plagarism, who committed it (do they have an account here and might the plagarized information have been put up here too?), and where was the information stolen from?  As it is, this conversation is little more than a drama argument, and may not be pertinent to this wiki.  Worffan101 (talk) 07:46, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

I discovered material from the Star Trek: Dark Horizon website (author Michael Gray) had been used without permission on Memory Gamma, with a user there passing it off as his own. I alerted the admins there, one of whom is the responsible plagiarist, and contacted the original author about it. As one of the senior admins here on STEU, I posted a warning to fellow creators while the drama was ongoing. The resulting "discussion" here is unfortunate, but probably inevitable. In any case, pertinent information, including the screenshots from Memory Gamma, can be found here on Reddit. --TimPendragon (talk) 09:04, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

People re-use fan works and works all the time. Just look at [1]. It's being used fairly just as your Edram Cale image is.

ElectricSupernova 12:03, March 17, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Thanks for pointing out Memory Delta, Typhuss' wiki that he created after being banned for plagiarism here. DMCA notices have been issued. --TimPendragon (talk) 15:36, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

OK, I took a look on Memory Gamma, and I didn't see any conversations about this.  Then I took a look at your contribs there because I figured you might've posted a wall message about it and figured that was the quickest way to find such.  

Several conversations about this matter were deleted on Memory Gamma.  essentially, there seems to have been a targeted effort to remove evidence of any plagarism or discussion of plagarism, by the Memory Gamma administration.  Do you have screenshots to confirm the plagarism and/or confirmation of who was engaging in plagarism?  Worffan101 (talk) 20:17, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

I didn't delete them to cover it up. I deleted them to avoid further conflicts, but I will restore them. Before it gets worse, can I say my side of the story?

ElectricSupernova 21:06, March 17, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Plus, if you look at Media:EdramCale.jpg, you can see it's completely derived from another work. I don't know if he asked permission or not. But if he didn't, that's still the same thing. He modified some else's work, and used it as his own. I suppose to some people that would be plagiarism!

I've apologized to him and I've done my part, but he's not doing his. He says that what we're not doing is okay, yet he's continuously threatening us just because we don't agree with him. I didn't punish Dragon because I felt what he did was fair use, and while he did use a character, he added more to it. Isn't that what you're doing with that Arthur Darvill image? You're adding to the images. I don't think it's fair of you to accuse us of something that you're already doing. I think it is fair use because he repurposed one of the images. You can see things like that here and here. The point of fanon is to reuse work and be creative. People, like you, are reusing work and being creative WITHOUT PERMISSION. That's the whole point of fanon, to have a little fun. you're totally jumping to conclusions without actually considering other's points of view. ElectricSupernova 21:24, March 17, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

I've looked at the evidence on Memory Gamma.  The plagarist, Dragonboy456, was banned from this wiki for persistent plagarism, immaturity, rudeness, bad behavior, and repeated refusal to comply with wiki policies.  I have no doubt that he has again plagarized someone else's work, and based on his track record he probably doesn't see the problem with it.  Further, your argument that a photo manip of an actor is plagarism simply doesn't hold water; by that metric, simply writing fanfic would be plagarism, which is laughable.  Dragonboy456, in his previous cases of plagarism, just took characters and elements he felt like using from other people's fic, and when confronted about this first attempted to whine that he was doing people a "favor" by giving their characters a higher profile or something, then claimed he'd done nothing wrong.  Quite frankly, sir, based on the conversations that you attempted to conceal on Memory Gamma, you're more concerned with the feelings of an immature serial plagarist than with the plagarism that that serial and unrepentantly persistent plagarist committed yet again.  

I refuse to stick my neck out for a serial plagarist who was banned here for being a jerk.  Worffan101 (talk) 21:44, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

Worffan, have you looked at photomanips? They take other people's work often without permission. How is this any different? ElectricSupernova 21:56, March 17, 2018 (UTC)ElectricSupernova

Alright everyone, can we step back a bit? This is getting a little nasty. I’m relatively new to the Fandom arena, so this is really off-putting. Pendragon: I appreciate and admire your passion for permissions -- we all need to be reminded of the sanctity of one’s own creative work and to respect their preferences for how it is used. You’ve made your point eloquently. But now you seem to be on a vindictive, self-righteous tear. It appears from your profile that you’re about 35 years old. Has it occurred to you that some of the contributors you’re on top of like a rabid bloodhound may be at least 20 years younger than you? I happen to know that some are. Have you considered that many of us – whatever our age -- are at different levels of experience, both in life and within the Fandom world? Allow some mistakes – that’s how we’re all learning in these ever-evolving collaborative worlds. Accept some apologies and move on. You seem to be one of the “Elder Statesmen” here. While you’re flying your banner as self-appointed champion of all things ethical, remember that civility is also a valued trait within our community. Please remember the underlying communal spirit of our many intersecting creative efforts. We get it. Call off the dogs already. Juraffe (talk) 21:47, March 17, 2018 (UTC)Juraffe

Juraffe, I need to put my 2 cents in here. Let's get back to the issue at hand: Dragonboy456 using other authors' characters and ships without consent. Dragonboy456 is not some 15 year old boy; he is an adult. We are literally having a conversation with him on the Star Trek: Hidden Frontier group on Facebook about him ripping off not only a ship to use as his series's main ship but also using characters from other productions as his own: USS Helena and Myra Elbrey specifically in the posts I have been involved in. There have been other characters from other series he has appropriated for his own use without permission too. See this Facebook post for one example.

Rob Caves has asked him to stop it repeatedly; Dragonboy456 (Jarvis) will not listen. Other authors from other productions have told him to stop it repeatedly; Dragonboy456 will not listen. He just doesn't seem to get what he is doing is wrong. From the evidence I have seen, Dragonboy456 is a serial plagiarist and his behaviour doesn't seem to want to change.

I understand Tim's frustration, and, to be honest, you don't know what is going on in his personal life -- I do as he is a friend of mine -- so that frustration is compounded by other factors, I am sure. It takes a lot to make me angry, but boy-oh-boy, I'm frustrated beyond belief with Dragonboy456 and his continual arguments and victim mentality when, in fact, he simply needs to come up with his own stuff. It's not rocket science.

I have had to ban Dragonboy456 from my wiki as he continually tried to edit my characters and information and add non-relevant characters and information -- which may or may not have been plagiarised from other sources -- to my wiki as well.

So putting the warning out there about a serial plagiarist stealing peoples' characters and ideas and ships, yet again, is justified in my opinion. It seems I'm not alone in those thoughts from the consensus from discussions here, on Facebook, and on other wikias. --usscantabrian (talk) 22:29, March 17, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for responding, USSCantabrian, and the additional perspective. Like I said, I'm fairly new to this terrain and I'm certainly in no position to pontificate at length or try to arbitrate in any way. It's clear that DragonBoy has been a past offender with a cavalier disregard for fair use principles and other essential standards of conduct. I appreciate that you and your colleagues take such things seriously and champion the rights of creative others.

By now, you probably can sense that I also have a friend in this: Electric Supernova (he's the one that got me into this!) I also don't know enough about his own history on this site but I do know that has a tremendous respect for the content and its governance. He's still figuring out protocols and boundaries, and that they aren't necessarily elastic. He's also very loyal, and found he may have overstepped in trying to support DragonBoy.

Once again, there's much more behind our online personas! So thanks for so evenhandedly giving me the fuller picture and allowing me the chance as well. There's a lot more to all of us -- within our own stories -- beyond those we create online.

I think it's general frustration coming through from some of us. I understand it, and it sounds like you do too. Whether you are new at this or an old pro, your opinion does matter, though, and, like in any good organisation or club or, well, whatever a wikia is, we all learn and grow and improve through talking things through and agreeing on a way forward.

Plagiarism -- which is taking someone else's ideas and using them as your own without permission or without acknowledging the source -- is a serious offence. It's not something specific to the wiki world but in life in general. As you may or may not know, it can get a guilty person kicked out of university and even cause legal issues where it occurs in the outside world. It's more than just a moral or ethical issue, but a legal one as well as it is one person essentially stealing the ideas of another person and presenting them as his own. It's great for me to say this like it is everyday knowledge, but I'm making the assumption that everyone knows what plagiarism is and knows the serious consequences behind being guilty of it, and that's a bad assumption to make. I work in education, so I have been either in tertiary education as a student or as an administrator for over 25 years (yikes), and if we fold all education into it, I essentially have been in school since I was 3, so the concept is very clear to me. Someone who works in another area, or has not been through tertiary education, or isn't as familiar with or was struggling to get by in the compulsory school system, obviously may not be as knowledgeable about it.

But... any administrator on a wikia needs to remain vigilant against plagiarism. It's one of the things, I would believe, an administrator would sign up to ensure when they run a wiki; any content entered on their wiki would be original content (unless a prior agreement is made with other wikis or between authors) or content that is presented in a way unique or relevant to that wiki. So ElectricSupernova should be familiar with this requirement as an administrator. It has nothing to do with his personality or him personally, but it is his responsibility and the Memory Gamma community should make rules and take all applicable steps to ensure plagiarism and other such things don't happen. (If the community needs help in the matter, then Wikia themselves may be able to assist better.)

I hope this is making sense. I'm just trying to outline this information so it's clear where I think we are all coming from.

Also, just a few wee tips. When responding to someone in a place like this, make sure you indent your answer (so my first answer to you was using ::, so your answer to that answer should be :::: and so on) and also remember to sign off on your comments with a --~~~~. If you're signed in (which you should be) it will automatically post your username. Thanks! :) --usscantabrian (talk) 01:14, March 18, 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the support and trying to bring this back to civility, Scott. --TimPendragon (talk) 05:47, March 18, 2018 (UTC)

Evidence and a Further Complication: Enter Memory Delta.

Since Worffan101 asked if there were screenshots of the Memory Gamma conversations, yes, and they can be found via my Reddit post. Here's the link again: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/84xrf2/a_warning_about_the_memory_gamma_wiki/

Now, I've become aware of Memory Delta, a wiki that is essentially a mirror of Memory Gamma, founded by TyphussJediVader (remember him? He goes by Typhuss999 now) after he was banned here. Dragonboy is also an admin there now. The site literally serves no purpose that Memory Gamma does not fill, except to give Typhuss his own little realm where pesky rules won't get in his way. Finding my own work posted by Dragonboy and claimed as his own, I've not bothered to ask it to be taken down, and gone striaght to submitting DMCA requests to Wikia. I highly recommend that everyone here go through both Memory Delta and Memory Gamma, look for plagiarized work, and submit DMCAs as appropriate. A wiki for posting fanfic itself is certainly not a bad idea, but Typhuss and Dragonboy should not be in admin positions, nor should they have a platform for their continued malfeasance. If Wikia receives enough DMCA notices from multiple parties about Memory Delta, they will pull it down, as it is essentially nothing more than a duplicate of Memory Gamma. I do not do this to be vindictive, but because there's no other way to stop it. --TimPendragon (talk) 05:47, March 18, 2018 (UTC)