View source for Star Trek Expanded Universe:Community Portal/Archives

==Community Portal Archives==
*[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Community Portal/Archive_1|Archive 1]]
*[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Community Portal/Archive_2|Archive 2]]

==Character articles ([[Tekari]], [[Kevin Saunders]], etc.)==
I'm concerned about these entries that read more like bios on sim websites rather than encyclopedia articles. Am I alone in this? They sound like advertisements. I think we should establish a "guideline" example article. Any suggestions? --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 21:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed. In fact, I'm pretty sure these ''are'' sim bios, just transferred here. The content itself surely isn't a problem, but it needs to have a more encyclopedic presentation. More neutrality, more facts, a little less fluff. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 21:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
::Right. But I'd still like to see some suggestions (if any) for a guideline article, something that says "This is how we do it". (OT: Like that one song... anyone remember that song?) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 11:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, wouldn't a character article be a mini-biography?  And yes, I remember [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwjAaDKFRU the song].  :-)  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 13:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Yeah, but there's a difference in the way a typical sim bio is done, and what's appropriate for an encyclopedia (even one such as this). Compare [[Tekari]] (bad example) and [[Alan Eyler]] (better example), and I think you'll see what we're talking about. And yes, I think there should be, if not an actual example article, then a side-by-side comparison of the right and wrong way to phrase things. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 17:37, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

==Prometheus==
''moved from [[Category talk:USS Prometheus (NX-59650) personnel]]''

Nominated because it will be "replaced" with [[USS Prometheus (prototype) personnel]]?   If so I support.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 13:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
:yes, sorry.. i tried to make it self-explanatory. simply put, a friend and I had an argument about Promtheus's "true" registry, i decided it would be best to title the article on the "middle ground", so to speak (and we concluded that it must be completely possible for one ship to have two registries for heretofore unknown reasons) -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]]
::That's what I figured.  Will give it another day or two - just to make sure no one else has a problem with it.  Then I'll send it to "never-never land" (deletion)  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 20:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
:I don't see what difference it makes as to if its' (NX-59650) or (protoype) not to sound combatative but the NX-59650 is the true registry in terms of my fan fic. That said i don't really care its a "six of one half a dozen of another" type thing. I just felt i should say something/state my opinion since it indirectly is related to my fan fic. --[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 22:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
::I wasn't involved in that debate (and not fimilar with it either way) but I agree (on the surface) with Logan.  Unless there is strong reason not to list it as USS Prometheus (NX-59650) vs USS Prometheus (prototype).  Let's make a decision within a week or so - that way we can fix the other pages (if needed)  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 22:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
:Like i said, the "prototype" name ''does'' accurately distinguish the ship, because the Prometheus class USS Prometheus is the only Prometheus which is a prototype. The registries are a potentially confusing issue and i was trying to find the middle ground. just because your fanfic ignotre the other registry, some others do not, but they are all meant to be the same ship. i've made "prototype" articles for a few other ships where the registry of the prototype ship is not known, so i didnt' think this would be a problem. as it is now, there are a lot of broken redirects, and i felt the name worked fine anyway. if Sneg the admin said we were going to wait before making a decision and "fixing" the articles, i'm not sure why they've all been moved already before i had a chance to respond. -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]] 14:54, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
::Guys, I agree with Mike here. In the case of the ''Prometheus'', the two registry numbers - both of which are from actual ''Trek'' canon - should mean that we list the ship as either (prototype) or (''Prometheus'' class). It's no different then the [[USS Yamato (Galaxy class)]]. The ship has ''two'' canonical registries, and people are open to chose which they prefer. I'm in favor of having titling the article [[USS Prometheus (Prometheus class)]], but (prototype) works, too.
::If Logan wants his own ''Prometheus'' page, then title his [[USS Prometheus (DOTF)]] or something like that, as I've done with [[USS Intrepid (NCC-74600) (PDN)]], to differentiate between my continuity and that of ''Star Trek: Intrepid''.  As it stands, the ''Prometheus'' page is pretty overloaded on Logan's continuity, so  anyone else who uses the ''canonical'' ship in their fic might have to make a new page anyway. I say, retitle Logan's to be [[Defenders of the Federation]] specific, and then have the generic canon/minor fic vessel page be listed as either (prototype) or (Prometheus class). --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 18:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
1 as for it being overloaded on my continuity I wrote the article from scratch for my continuity anyone who wants to have a prometheus for their continuity can simply make one for their continuity. Not to be rude but there are other ships on this wiki with multiple pages for different continuities.
2, I agree with Tim's suggestion that we call a generic cannon prometheus USS Prometheus (prototype) for my continuity we could call the article USS Prometheus (NX-59650) (DOTF). If i have come across to anyone as rude I apologize this was not my intention. To solve this "Problem" I will move my prometheus page to the aformentioned title.--[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 21:59, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:Cool. There's usually a simple answer like this, rather than getting into an edit war. All I meant about "overloaded with your continuity" was that it really was more ''your'' page specifically, and I felt it should be titled as such. No one has a right to "call the shots" over a canon ship, but making it your own, you can ignore whichever registry you like. It also leaves a "basic" page for other folks, who may reference the ''Prometheus'', without having enough data to warrant a separate "continuity page". --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 22:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

=="Vessel assignments"==
I know it'd be a ton of work, but what about renaming the "vessel assignments" section on the timeline pages to something like "Promotions and transfers". That seems more appropriate to me. Otherwise, where do we put a note that someone was promoted but didn't transfer, or someone assigned to a starbase? --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 21:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:And yes, I am volunteering to make the changes, if that's what we decide. :-) --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 22:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
::How about "Assignments and Promotions"? Covers both. Nice and neat. Or, just "Assignments" when there are only assignments, "Promotions" for promos alone, and then both when both apply... but I have a feeling this would confuse some of the more simple-minded. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 23:52, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Sounds like a good plan to me.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 23:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
::::How 'bout Assignments, Decorations and Promotions? --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 03:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:"Decorations" seems more exotic for this case. In a sense "promotions" covers that. One has to examine the historical significance: How major is it if someone gets decorated? That would/should be on their individual article anyway--but if it ''is'' that important, ''to the overall timeline'', when an officer (or whoever) gets "decorated", it could go under "Events". (However, I can envision the pages getting overloaded with these... seems like everyone thinks their character is the best of the bunch. Like Sneg & I were discussing [[Talk:Kevin Saunders|re: Kevin Saunders]].) Personally, I still think "Assignments and Promotions" works best. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 21:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

==Character Templates==
Are they any set rules against using this [[Character Template]] here? the reason I ask is that there are quite a few characters that use this template but some use the TNG or DS9 template. Personally I would prefer to use either [[Character Template]] or some otherone besides the TOS TNG DS9 DS92 or CIVILIAN templates. No offense intended but the reason i want to do this is because the coloring of these templates strikes me as unnecessarly flashy. I post this question beacuse i do not want to piss anyone off by just going ahead and doing it without asking.--[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 05:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
:I would say there needs to be some consensus on where and for whom it's used--what genre, etc. Some (such as TOS characters, TNG characters, and so on) quite obviously have their own templates as a unifying "theme" of sorts, and I believe the fact of their acceptance supports their use--so they should have them, wherever they apply. Other characters or articles may not fit neatly under any one of these (for example, a far-flung future character from beyond those eras), and may thus warrant the orange template (although ''that'' one strikes me as gaudy, personally, but that's just me). What do you consider too "flashy"? As in which ones, in particular? (BTW, ''please'' do everyone a favor and check your spelling... *cringe*) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 05:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
::I was trying to be polite by saying flashy but honestly the TNG character and DS9 character templates strike me as gaudy because of their multiple bright colors. I don't particularly have to use the [[Character Template]] i just cited that one as a preference because it doesn't have all sorts of different colors i would be just as willing to use a version with grey or one of the established ones such as REM character or Arc for example.--[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 05:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Perhaps we should dispense with the individualized and varying templates and go back to "one for all". I wondered if this would happen, when we started doing different color themes--not everyone would be able to agree on when and where they should be used; some would just naturally favor certain ones over others, and edit wars might ensue. What does everyone else think? --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
::Personally, I like the idea of a TOS/Movie/TNG templates - it make each era stand out but if make the character template "standard" across the board it will mean some serious work for us ahead.  Maybe we could add a field to a standard template to indicate which "era" or "universe" a character is from.  The Star Wars Wiki has different character templates based on who the character is (jedi template, sith template, Rebel template, etc), which in my opinion looks nice, but if the majority wants to go to a one template style - that's fine by me.  --03:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

==Banner==
Can someone please put together an advertising banner for this site? The person who runs Kuro-RPG would like to link to this site on the Kuro-RPG site since I use so many of the ranks, and having a banner would make things a lot easier. Can anyone do it? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 19:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'll see if I can whip something together. Give me a day or two. Maybe less. What dimensions? 468x60? (Too bad he doesn't use wiki. We could just make a userbox.) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 19:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
::Sorry, I haven't been able to ask Kuro. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 22:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:::468x60. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 06:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
::::K, I'll see if I can whip up somethin' agreeable. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 13:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

==Homesun speaks!==
After I sent him ''another'' email, and posted comments on his talk page and other articles, I received this reply via email:
 Tim, can you please tell me what I'am doing wrong!
I can't for the life of me understand how he can not be reading the discussion pages.  I calmly wrote back:
 Do you know how to go to the Talk pages on your articles? 
 Right above the article title it has some tabs. "User page", 
 "discussion", etc.  Click on the discussion tab, and respond 
 to the comments people are leaving about your articles. 
 They need a lot of work, more than I can say in an email.
 The first step is communicating.
Let's see if he replies and ''finally'' gets it. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 03:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:Well, since we're sharing Homesun's emails, he asked me if I would correct his punctuation, spelling and "capitolazation" for him. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 22:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
::A little help is one thing, but we're not his cleanup crew. He needs to ''learn'' these things himself. And he bloody well needs to start using the talk pages, as I've told him via email, though he hasn't responded again. ''muttering, grumbling, sigh...'' --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 23:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Quite right. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 00:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
::::As archivists here, we ''are'' in fact his cleanup crew -- and he has asked for help -- the defintion of a wiki is easily editable pages that many can collaborate on. We also have it in our ability to make broad ranging decisions on editing, removing, suggesting and then enacting changes to his work based on the community consensus. Railroading him to a permanent ban, ignoring his request for help will be a symbol of the failure of this wiki's administration to properly outline the form of and welcome free content. If the admins of this site wish to exclude users and have their own personal pages, then a Wikia wiki isn't the environment to perform the work you intend to do. -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]] 17:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I sent him an email asking him to add an introduction to [[Galacto Pet Shop]], and outlining a few questions that needed to be answered. He responded with:
 I'm sorry tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Which I'd already told him. ''Sigh''. So I sent him another ''two'' emails, asking him why he ignored my questions, why he doesn't use the talk pages, and I used [[Galacto Pet Shop]] as an example again. I haven't heard back yet... but I'm just getting pretty damn frustrated with him. We ask him for ''information'', say that he needs to at least write a bloody introduction to let us know what's going on in his articles, and ask why he's not using the talk pages... and he ignores all the questions and says "what am I doing wrong?"... ARGH. If I hadn't just shaved my head, I'd be tearing my hair out... for the love of God, what will get through to this guy? --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 19:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:Thought - what if we asked him to only work on a couple articles and when he has shown that he can flesh out one or two we'll let him run amock then.  I think half of our frustations is not only doesn't he make a mess in his room, he messes up the whole house.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 20:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
::It's an okay idea, but given the record of dealing with this kid, and his lack of communication, there's simply no assurance that you'd be getting through to him, in order to know that he'd understand. Other than that, there's really no way to keep him working only on a couple pages. He'll run amok if he chooses. That's always been the problem. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

==Content==
I have to say, this is all coming to a head for me. Articles like [[Green Warrior]] (contributed by [[User:Luke80|Luke]] no less), Homesun's "contributions", and various other silliness from obviously young people (I'm ''guessing'', teenagers in the 12-14 range) out to make their "mark" on the Trek world are, IMO, seriously detracting from ever possibly attaining the goal of "quality" on this wiki. Rampant typos, misspellings, etc., ridiculous content, immature imaginings, ripping each other off for content.... I think the majority of articles on here were in need of a "clean up crew" at one time. We've cleaned up a lot. I don't know where they're coming from, or who's telling them to come on over to this wiki where they can post "whatever they want", but more keep pouring in. Those of us with a mind to clean up will be cleaning up after others indefinitely--and I think it's the age problem. [[User:Angela|Angela]], or somebody, gave Luke (a kid) a wiki, with a powerful idea behind it... while neglecting to ensure that he's capable of executing it. I found this interesting comment from Luke [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Star_Trek_Expanded_Universe here]:
:''Even in the Expanded Universe Star Trek wiki, I will not allow ships like the USS Audacious. Ships, people, and places can be made up, but only within the confines of the established universe in books, games, television, movies and RPGs. -Luke80.''
Yet, take a look at [[Green Warrior]]: Hardly within the "established confines". And we see content like that "USS ''Audacious''" (as described at the above link) all the time. Again, I believe Luke's rule, "make up whatever you want", is tying our hands. It's a built-in contradiction, working against us. (Then, too, it contradicts his statement above, in my perspective.) I'd say it ''might'' be better if Luke was around more of the time, and more involved, but after seeing him in his Unity videos, and the articles he's done (one mentioning the TARDIS--and it ''didn't'' seem an intentional crossover of ST w/''Dr. Who''), my confidence is not inspired in his ability to lead this wiki or uphold the ''idea of this wiki''. Frankly, the idea is bigger than him.

(This is no way meant as an insult to Luke or to discourage him from his pursuits--I commend him for his initiative; he hit on the idea for this wiki at the right time and got it off the ground. I also freely admit, ''I'm'' not making any fan films... but that's not what this is about. I wish Luke nothing but the best in his future endeavors, and seriously hope that this is merely the start of a career for him, which could, theoretically, help to revitalize Star Trek in the future. And I'm not just saying that because he's the founder.)

Basically, as long as this status quo remains in effect, and we have to keep dealing with the "kiddies" (one of which is the head bureaucrat in charge), it's pointless. I haven't contributed any new articles re: ''[[Star Trek: Arcadia]]'' lately, or recently, because I'm growing ever more concerned about the impression of association on here. In other words, I'm not sure I want ''Arcadia'' associated with such absurd content. Seeing it mixed into the batch raises a question--and the question is, "What does that say about ''Arcadia'' (or, insert any other "serious" effort made here)....?" --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 00:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

:I fully agree, and regret that it's come to this point. As neither an admin nor bureaucrat, there's nothing I can do about it, but ''something'' has to be done. I've been hoping that the wiki would eventually become the "one-stop-resource" for cataloging good fan fiction/projects on the web, but I don't know if that's reasonable. Right now, this place is wide open for any thirteen year old girl to create an article about her songfic on ''fanfiction.net'' or whatever... That's the vast majority of "fandom" out there, unfortunately. Heaven help us if we ever have to deal with ''slash.''
:I've never been one for unnecessary restrictions, but right now is the time to implement some stronger guidelines, before [[User:Homesun|Homesun]] and other fanboys and "teeneyboppers" overrun those of us who take this seriously. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 02:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
::Stronger guidelines: We need 'em. Or this place will, I fear, degenerate (even as we try to "fix" it) into a bloody mess. This has got to stop, or those of us who ''are'' interested in straightening it out will end up walking. Imagine this place left to its own devices, after a time. It'll be like one of those abandoned Trek RPG websites you find, left in a state of hopeless disarray, where little seems to make sense... and it got left like that because they just stopped caring. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Hard to say it but what is there to add to these comments?  You are both 100% correct.  If we don't start streamlining and setting higher goals this wiki will become a failed urban project.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 13:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Before we can really turn this place around, I strongly believe there needs to be a "new bureaucracy" put into place. We need to ask Luke to step aside. It's grown beyond his capabilities, and needs to be turned over to someone else. [[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] has my unequivocal support. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 03:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, thanks, I'm honored, but bear in mind, a wiki is owned by the community; Luke, even though he's the founder, doesn't own it or even truly run it, and therefore I wouldn't either. A bureaucrat just has a few more administrative privileges. I simply expect quality content, maturely written and sensibly formatted. The best thing at this point is to address the issue above: The "make up what you want" rule. If a majority speaks up and says "abolish that rule", then Luke should bow gracefully to (and abide by) our wishes. So, what say you? --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 05:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:'''I agree.'''  We need to be a bit more "regulated" (for lack of a better phrase) verus the willy-nilly we are now.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 08:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
::Okay, well I've have my say. I have never made up useless and un-needed content. Everything that I have added to this wiki explains a part of my series [[Star Trek: Unity]] and nothing less 'acceptable'. I started this wiki with the express purpose of giving people like me, who create their own fan fiction, to create articles about their fiction and add details. For [[Star Trek: Unity|Unity]], I will admit that some of the early storylines were abserd and elements of it, such as the [[Green Warrior]]s, but I started the series to be a sort of dramatic comedy which led to some strange ideas. However strange these ideas are, I still think I should be comprehensive and include the finer points, because quite frankly, thats what I started the wiki for. My series is not solely '''Star Trek''' based, but it is about 95% Star Trek based and at its core it is always '''Star Trek'''. (The whole '''TARDIS''' bit was gonna be in an episode, but I decided against it and I'll get rid of that link ASAP) I do actually visit the site daily and try and handle some tasks such as clearing out the Current Events, responding to Community Portal threads and in some cases, banning users. I am not able to handle ALL admin tasks and is one of the reasons that I made other users sysops. As for wiki policy, I have already commented that the "make up almost anything rule" has come back to haunt me. Therefore, I am open to suggestions for a new wiki policy definition. Yes I am a teenager and a general sci-fi fan, but I do take this wiki seriously and want to try and do my best to make it serve all our needs and wants. --[[User:Luke80|Luke80]] 19:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

==Permaban Homesun?==
Okay, I've had enough of this. I bet a few others have, as well. Homesun's had ''more'' than enough chances to redeem himself, and he's wasted them. Time to put it to a vote: Do we permaban Homesun? --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 22:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

'''VOTE FOR PERMABANNING HOMESUN - VOTE WILL CLOSE AT 17:45 22 NOVEMBER 2006'''

'''SUPPORT'''
#--<strike>[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 00:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)</strike>
#--<strike>[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 01:16, 16 November 2006 (UTC)</strike>
#--<strike>[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 01:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)</strike>
#--<strike>[[User:The NCC Factor|The NCC Factor]] 08:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)</strike>
#--<strike>[[User:JusticeCEO|JusticeCEO]] 12:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)</strike>
#--[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 04:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
'''OPPOSE'''
#--[[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]] 17:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 21:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC) (not a big fan of "permabanning" - unless you are posting porno or acting in a very disruptive manner - was going to vote Abstain but I think I lean more towards anything other than permabanning)

'''ABSTAIN'''
#----[[User:Luke80|Luke80]] 19:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I would rather not permaban someone, however I don't know all the details, so I will abstain and let people more in the know make a desision.


'''COMMENTS'''

::::As archivists here, we ''are'' in fact his cleanup crew -- and he has asked for help -- the defintion of a wiki is easily editable pages that many can collaborate on. We also have it in our ability to make broad ranging decisions on editing, removing, suggesting and then enacting changes to his work based on the community consensus. Railroading him to a permanent ban, ignoring his request for help will be a symbol of the failure of this wiki's administration to properly outline the form of and welcome free content. If the admins of this site wish to exclude users and have their own personal pages, then a Wikia wiki isn't the environment to perform the work you intend to do. -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]] 17:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:Mike, he refuses to ''communicate''. His answers to emails are spotty at best, and he absolutely ignores comments left on the talk pages. He's not providing enough context in his articles for those of us who ''would'' make editorial changes to know what to do. If he won't ''communicate'', what other choice do we have? --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 20:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
::I at least think it will make the wiki look better if it is not a unanimous vote. i stand by my vote and comments. i've restructured many poorly-written articles similar to homesun's, from a user who doesnt use talk pages much and doesnt respond to all my queries. of course, he started the wiki so he isn't bannable ;) -- i'm just saying that if you wanted to isolate and mark homesun's entries as poor, he might get the idea, and have help provided to him by those not in the admin group -- the editing population in general. if you guys feel you can't personally copyedit all these shitty articles, put it out there and see if ''anyone else wants to'' -- administrating a wiki means identifying tasks that you might not want to do yourself, and collaborating with, organizing, ''administrating'', those who want to. -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain M.K.B.]] 21:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:::May I ask what we're supposed to do instead if we don't permaban him? Who knows what he'll do if we try to fix his articles. He might refuse to accept the changes, and plus, how are we supposed to fix his articles if we know nothing about the continuity? I'm of the firm belief that all articles here must have something to back them up, and he doesn't have anything. He's doing the same thing as Jaime A and using this as his own personal Trek blog. As much as it pains me to do so, I feel we have no choice. Communication simply won't work, and, Mike, if no one knows where his work is coming from, how can anyone, admin or otherwise, fix his articles? They're completely random and have no source material. We can't fix them if we don't know where they're coming from. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 21:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Exactly. Listen carefully: '''I do ''not'' want to ban anyone.''' However, we can't ''fix'' his stuff if we don't know what the bloody flip he's talking about, and he will not communicate with us. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 22:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:These are good points on both sides of the issue. Okay, so, if you don't permaban him, then how long is a good time? Three months? A year? Not at all? We could ban him for three months, same as was done re: Jamie A. & Zman. Maybe when/if they return (which will be in Dec. or Jan. I believe), they'll have learned something by then... since week-long blocks didn't do it before. On the other hand, we might be right back here going through this all over again. (Just as we've been through this already.) Letting them do whatever they want is why this is a problem. You can't have it both ways. You can't regulate content and then allow these types who defy the regulation, do whatever they please and thumb their nose at those who tell them "This isn't how we do things", while letting them come back to do it again. It's like re-hiring an employee who's stolen from you. If he steals again, who's to blame? I don't see how anyone can't get this simple, self-evident point. Regardless, I withdraw my vote. I don't want to see anyone permanently banned, either, but if this place goes down the tubes because we didn't cut the weeds, well, then.... *shrug* --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 03:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
::Maybe we should have set penalties and escalation for this kind of thing.  Something like this -
:::1st Offense = 1 week ban
:::2nd Offense = 2 week ban
:::3rd offense = 1 month ban
:::4th Offense = 3 month ban
:::5th Offense = 6 month ban
:::6th Offense = 1 year ban
:::7th Offense = Permaban
::It would take quite a bit to be perminently banned and is someone has a problem with it, at least we can say that a procedure was followed.  Of course, this is completely open to discussion and, as we have to talk about it, I have removed my vote above. --[[User:JusticeCEO|JusticeCEO]] 11:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:::That's not a bad idea. It should be easy to spot what constitutes an "offense" in this case (as long as one remains unbiased and impartial). --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 15:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Agreed. A temp ban seems more appropriate now. I withdraw my permaban vote. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 17:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::He did not really learn anthing after he was banned the first time, however I guess there's the chance he could improve so I'll give him another chance and withdraw my vote. --[[User:The NCC Factor|The NCC Factor]] 17:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::Okay, I'll go with the majority on this one, and I agree in principle. All he needs to do is communicate, and tell us about his stuff, and we can ''help'' him. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 21:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm... haven't reached the deadline yet and already this issue seems closed. Wow. That was interesting. Though we haven't reached Kevin W.'s deadline of the 22nd (was that a week from the time you posted that, Kevin?), shall we call this closed? Unless someone thinks they'll recant their recant by then?

Next order of business: [[User:JusticeCEO]]'s...

=="Grading" system==
Any objections? Sound like a good idea to implement? If there ''are'' objections, by all means, bring them up. Silence = consent. Note: Homesun has already, technically, I think, earned himself a second (2-week) ban... but since he's been banned 2 or 3 times now (!), (and this wasn't implemented,) maybe we can go easy and consider his sentence "commuted" for now. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 01:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:No objections at all (at least from me).  I think rules like this need to be laid out that way no one can say they were treated unfairly in the future.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 01:47, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
::If he is talking then it maybe the start of proper relations with the user and he could become a useful member of the wiki. --[[User:Luke80|Luke80]] 11:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
:::That's a big "if" in Homesun's case, but this isn't about just Homesun. We're discussing the scale. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 16:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
::::We have had our share of users abusing the site before. In most cases, we've never been able to establish a proper understanding or dialog with them and we've been forced to ban them. I think we should have some sort of grading system as suggested above. --[[User:Luke80|Luke80]] 16:29, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

==Featured Articles and MA==
I think it should be a rule that any article directly copied from MA or the NC Wiki should automatically be disqualified from being nominated for featured article. Featured articles for this wiki should be those of our own making. Anyone agree (or am I just wasting my time since this is already an unwritten rule)? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 07:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's an unwritten rule but I agree.  Plagiarism shouldn't be allowed as a FA.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 13:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
That's what I thought it was--an unwritten rule. Yep, agree wholeheartedly. Unless, ''maybe'', the article is re-written to distinguish it from the MA version and that's evident in the writing--but preferably it should still be an original. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 13:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::I agree as well.  If someone rewrites an MA article to make it differant, they MIGHT be in considertion, but the large percentage are out. --[[User:JusticeCEO|JusticeCEO]] 17:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree too --[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 23:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

==Happy Thanksgiving!==
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody! (Well, to the Americans, anyway--those who celebrate it.) Gobble, gobble! --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 19:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
:Agreed - gobble gobble.  I know the wife is happy since here old High School was on ESPN2 this morning.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 19:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
:Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 19:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
:Happy Thanksgiving to all the other turkeys out there. :-P --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 19:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

==Re: Homesun - Articles tagged for deletion==
A lot of his pieces have the {{tl|deletion}} tag attached, lacking enough substance or context to flesh into full quality articles. In order to save everyone a lot of time and hassle, rather than go through the rigamarole of voting on each article's talk page, I'm motioning here for summary deletion. This applies only to articles with the deletion tag. In favor or opposed, vote and/or feel free to comment. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 23:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

:;''Vote closed at 06:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC).''
:''See comment below.'' --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 06:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

===Summary deletion===
;In favor
#--[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 23:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:The doctor|The Doctor]] 00:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 00:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 00:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 02:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:Logan MacLeod|Logan MacLeod]] 02:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:The NCC Factor|The NCC Factor]] 12:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
#--[[User:JusticeCEO|JusticeCEO]] 15:48, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
;Opposed

;Comments
* A lot of these articles make no sense to me.  I think this user may have anonymously posted one of his articles on '''Memory Beta''' and it was quickly deleted when no further information was forthcoming. --[[User:The doctor|The Doctor]] 00:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
* We have tried to work with him  and I know I've tried to turn his rubbish into something that looked like an article instead of a grocery list. (see [[Orion High School]]) --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 00:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
**And I would rather delete his "lists" (notice I don't call them articles) than "delete" the author.  I like to think there is hope for anyone.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 00:58, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
**My support for Homesun is slowing erroding away.  He really doesn't understand or want to understand (until it's too late and even then it's like a third world country that asks "what did we do?" after the UN has yelled at them a zillion times and the final time they cut off aid).  Like one friend use to say "how does he remember to breathe?"  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 14:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
*In my opinion he's had enough chances, most of his articles are nothing more than lists and require an extensive amount of improvment. --[[User:The NCC Factor|The NCC Factor]] 12:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
*Guess what? A couple days ago, he emailed me again:
 Don't delete new cities.
:So I told him ''again'' to start using the talk pages and answer the comments and concerns people have about his articles. He's remained silent. Maybe if we delete [[New Cities]] it'll get his attention. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 19:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
::He either has to learn how these things work on his own, or he never will. We've hinted, nudged, and tried every other method of communication to help him. I'm through discussing Homesun and chasing around behind him trying to clean up his mess. He's forcing us to get tough on him. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 20:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
'''Vote closed'''. Majority in favor; none opposed. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 06:07, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

==Homesun ''again''==
As I've mentioned before, several weeks ago I got an email message from Homesun saying "Tim tell me what I am doing wrong." So I did, and I made suggestions for improvement, and encouraged him to use the talk pages. Subsequently, I emailed him a couple questions about two of his so-called articles. Didn't hear anything for more than two weeks. Just now I received this:
 What di I do now! Stop sending me those mesages.
Okay, so he ''asks'' me for help, I try to give it to him, and now he tells me (basically) to shut up and sod off. Will ''someone'' please do '''something''' about this moronic twerp? He's making a lot of us waste time and energy better spent on other pursuits here, and he's working on my ''last'' nerve. I've been ''extremely'' patient in my emails with him, trying to penetrate that thick skull into whatever passes for his brain, but I swear, I'm about to ''lose it''. Argh. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 02:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
:Probably best to just do what he says, then. Ignore him, step back and relax. You're not alone. We'll deal with it as a community. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 03:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

==''Trekmania'' ships==
I'm starting to think that all of these ''[[Trekmania]]'' ship-stubs ([[USS Courageous]], et al.) should be merged into a single page. There's next to no content on their own. If any of them get expanded later, they can be moved ("back") to their own page on a per-case basis. Thoughts? --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #700000">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Star Trek Expanded Universe:Administrators|<span style="color: #232323">Adm</span>]] &bull; [[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #000055">Tlk</span>]]</sup> 03:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
:I say leave 'em alone. If someone's looking for a particular ship name or registry, they might miss it if it's only on a massive list page. It's not like they're taking up space that we need. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 04:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

==Announcements==
Couple things to go over, before we get to the end of the month and archive this page again (woo, they get long)...

Y'all might see some changes in the site's appearance. As you'll note in [[Special:Recentchanges|recent changes]], I'm finally modifying the CSS, and this will no doubt affect how a few templates and other things are displayed. (I think I already noticed it, on one of Kevin's templates where he has "infobox bordered" specified.) So, don't freak if you go there and see the display all out of whack--I'm aware of it and I'll be going over the entire site with a fine-toothed comb, to get out all the kinks. If anyone notices a problem, please let me know, preferably on [[User talk:Sasoriza|my talk page]]. Any problem at all, that anyone notices, let me know.

(BTW, Kevin, I'm working on that CharInsert issue. It's on my to-do list. I'll be haranguing the techs at Wikia to bump it up in their priority list. :-) )

Also... I think it would be a good idea, at the end of the month when this gets archived, instead of using this Community Portal page as a discussion forum, to set up an ''actual'' forum page separately, and start using this portal as a portal should be used, like they do on other wikis. Anyone disagree? (Sneg, incidentally, I may be able to work out that code issue for you. Wait and see.)

There may be other changes up ahead, to get this wiki looking like one of the best damn wikis ever, which I think we all want. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 11:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
:We should also look into the functionality of being able to change one's signature in the preferences area so you don't have to type out that long string of code every time you sign. Can that be done? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 20:06, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
::If I understand you correctly, then yeah. You only have to type three tildes, as normal (four to add the date). Like so: [[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 23:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC) (but you won't see tildes in the saved page)
:::No signature area shows up in my preferences...--[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 00:01, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Sorry Tim; just saw this. It's actually "nickname". Check the raw signature box, put in what you want and save. [[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup>
::After thinking about this again... I assume you can save your sig in your preferences (right?). Do you mean you want a code so that if you decide to change it, you can draw on a pre-saved sig template, without having to type it out again? If that's the case, I'm not sure why you'd want it; you'd only have to type (or copy & paste) once then just save it (in your preferences, as above). If you did that and it's not showing up, I'd ask around. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 23:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

==Infobox/sidebar consensus==
We still need to come to a consensus on how we want the infoboxes &amp; sidebars to look. Do we want a uniform style or what?--as far as color, etc. I ''can'' handle all the different types, but I don't want to keep adding new/different themes every time someone decides they want one. Can we settle on two or three popular themes? One for characters, one for fanfics, one for episodes, etc. I don't mind holding onto the color-coded variations per race (Klingons, Roms, etc.) if we want to keep those.

If I don't hear a lot of talk on it I'll just make an "administrative" decision and we can tweak later if necessary. (Of course, anyone who knows CSS is welcome to help.) --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 23:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
:I've stated my opinion on this in the past but I think a couple are fine - a user page doesn't need to be a "myspace" page.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 00:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::Not the userboxes. I mean the starship-sidebars, character infobox templates and so forth. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 00:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I think it'd be nice to have a uniform style for each. Not that I know how to make 'em. :-) --[[User:Hawku|Hawku]] 00:07, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::::I can do that. But we need to decide what "uniform style" we want; something everyone (or the majority) is happy with. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 00:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:LOL - sorry - with the recent rash of more userboxes that have popped up figured that is what we were talking about. For the sidebar issue - I support two modes of thought - the first being the TOS/TWOK/TNG/DS9 styles. I think it looks nice to have different templates for the different eras. But I will also support if we switch to one template for everything - like it and lump it. --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 00:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::NP. We should also set up a policy for their use--where it's appropriate to use them and where it isn't, so every Tom Dick & Harry isn't using whatever template they want simply because they like it. If it doesn't fit with the era/category, in other words. But the problem with this is when egos start to clash, so then it becomes wiser/safer to just be democratic and select "one for all". --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 00:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:::The different colours per era is good. I like the idea of having different colours per alien-ship type (i.e. Klingons-red, Romulans-green, Starfleet-blue-grey) like we already have - but somehow make the Klingon and the Mirror Universe different (if it matters to anyone). And somehow have the Starfleet-blue-grey be different than the Fanfilm, Fanfic, etc. main pages. Not that I have any ideas of how to make them different. :-P --[[User:Hawku|Hawku]] 00:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::::Never know until you try, Hawku. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup>

===Color theme===
So what's the most popular color theme around here, all around? The two-shade blue, blue/gray, red/yellowish, or what? Speak up and voice your choices. --[[User:Sasoriza|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #a6110d">Sasoriza</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #9AB9EB">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Sasoriza|<span style="color: #2cabe0">T</span>]]</sup> 02:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'd say the Arcadia color scheme. The blue/gray. It's simple and not too bright. --[[User:Kevin W.|<b><span style="font-variant:small-caps;color: #006400">Kevin W.</span></b>]]<sup>&nbsp;[[Administrator|<span style="color: #00008B">A</span>]]&bull;[[User talk:Kevin W.|<span style="color: #DC143C ">T</span>]]</sup> 02:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::Agreed - I've like the blue/grey combo you started with.  --[[User:Sneg|Sneg]] 17:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Works for me. I'd like to keep the different color schemes for the different races, though. --[[User:TimPendragon|TimPendragon]] 18:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)